The Bearded Mystic's Oneness Conversations with Gary Lee Haskins
Join an engaging, deep, and enlightening conversation on The Bearded Mystic's Podcast where renowned YouTuber Gary Lee Haskins @GaryLee123 shares his spiritual journey. Topics included are the value of community, spiritual lineage, reincarnation, and the impact of meditation. The dialogue moves beyond labels and pedestals, highlighting a balance between being seen as a friend and a teacher. The importance of discernment in resonating with spiritual content online is emphasized, alongside a discussion of how declaring oneself as enlightened can lead to ego and misunderstanding. This podcast gives a unique, grounded view of spirituality, filled with wisdom, humor and a genuine voice.
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Rahul N Singh:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Bearded Mystic Oneness Conversations with Gary Haskins. He is in my opinion, one of the famous YouTubers that we have that creates great interviews with people in the spiritual circles. He asks the right questions, he delves deep, and, I've been on the show once. It's conscious perspective and it's really, really good. Do check it out. The link is in the show notes to his channel, so make sure you do check him out. And, uh, so the first question, Gary, and welcome, uh, it's nice to see you after a couple of years. Although I've been, although I've been seeing you actually on my feed. alot so, so
Gary Haskins:
Now we're tapped
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah
Gary Haskins:
in in You know, you can interact.
Rahul N Singh:
Yes. Um, so the first question is how did the spiritual path, uh, actually catch your attention? You know, why did you want to get involved in it?
Gary Haskins:
It's a tough one. I never know how to answer that. I was always inclined, I don't know where it came from, maybe previous lives as some say, but I was always inclined with a sense of curiosity at what all of this was, man. Because I feel as though, or I felt as though it never made sense. It was just there was some kind of incongruence in how the whole world was set up and how I was supposed to be, how I was supposed to sound, how I was supposed to look, et cetera, et cetera. So there was always like a sense of curiosity of. Wanting to find out what's real, because I was like, this is, something's not adding up here. Like there's just something that just didn't resonate. There was not a lot of resonance, I guess you could say. Um, so that, like I said, led me down a sense of curiosity, but that curiosity was very material-minded. Back in the day, I'll say, I don't know, my teen years to my early twenties, I was a pragmatic atheist material-minded. If it couldn't be proven with science, then it didn't exist, kind of mind. So I was curious in that way, which I think is a good first step, right?
Rahul N Singh:
mm-Hmm
Gary Haskins:
Wanting answers to certain questions, just using proofs and maybe mathematics to prove it from there. Hmm. How did I get into spirituality from there? Because I do feel as though that is a sort of spirituality, but it's like it's not quite there, you know? It's not quite the level of yoga.
Rahul N Singh:
mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
Hmm. It's a tough one. How did I get in that? You know, honestly it probably came from a sense of still, even though I was still searching for answers in books, in in the material world, the material mind, there was still that yearning inside still like a sense of dissatisfaction. I was like, I guess reached a breaking point of just certain mental illnesses, you know, just, um, somewhere along the way it still didn't add up. This was mid twenties, I'd say. Still looking for something, looking, seeking something, something. I don't know what it was, but still, just the curiosity never ended. And then, like I said, certain mental ailments came about. I wanted to improve that naturally as I, hopefully we all would got into meditation because I heard, uh, all of the beautiful benefits of meditation. And from there, I think that's when it started. I think that's when the whole path started, was when I learned to just sit with that sense of mind, that sense of seeking that sense of dissatisfaction. And just be curious at that be what is that, what is the, the one. Where is this all coming from? The one that is dissatisfied, sitting with that every day in a ritualized manner. I think that is how the whole spiritual path came to be, is rather than questioning everything from the outside the world, like I said, this world that didn't add up, that just seemed to be backwards, turning that focus inward, that switched up everything. Um, and it did actually help my mental illness, I would say my depression, anxiety, all of the, uh, mental illness that I was probably born with, it seemed to be mitigated, but that was just the byproduct that just came along the way, I think from the looking inward. Um, so yeah. Uh, does that answer your question? It's more of just staying on, uh, a curious path
Rahul N Singh:
no, that's really beautiful. And I think, um, I really like the fact that you said that it was a byproduct and not the direct cause because I think sometimes people can, uh, as you probably know, people probably come onto the spiritual path thinking it will get rid of all their problems and sometimes it can bring in more problems than the actually, um, so
Gary Haskins:
ultimately though it does help. I think that's why we do it. I mean,
Rahul N Singh:
yes.
Gary Haskins:
getting right into this thing, I think we suffer so that it can align us with this. So-called spiritual Path. I really do think there's no other way to go about it. We all have this sense of inertia, just like this density in our head, and there's no way to untangle that until you follow the path. And I would recommend just meditation. I know there's many different yogas, well, four different yogas as they would say in the Gita. But me personally, I would recommend meditation to everybody, and it's not gonna work for everybody, but I think a vast majority of people can benefit from regular meditation and it won't necessarily, um, how do I put this? Yeah. It won't get rid of your suffering. It will just allow you to look at it a little bit differently, which then you could say thus does get rid of it per se but it's nothing to get rid of. It's just a transcendence through how one looks at the, the, the seeming suffering person
Rahul N Singh:
mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
you see? Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
I got you. So you mentioned the four yogas. So obviously this one specifically is Raja yoga, uh, that is mainly talked about, and it's obviously expressed a lot through Swami Vivekananda Ji's writings, uh, and, and lectures. So did that, did you ever read his, um, book on Raja yoga and how did that help if you
Gary Haskins:
No, I actually haven't. Um, I know I probably should have, and I sound a little fake for not reading it, but I know much of Swami Vivekananda and what he has to say. I just haven't dove into that specific book, and I know a lot about Raja yoga. I just, um, have yet to explore his actual, well, I've explored his writings, just not in a full, you know, like a full book in a manner where I sit down and go through hundreds of pages. But I do know of it very well.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. So how did you come across Raja yoga then?
Gary Haskins:
hmm. I don't know, man. Just along the way, along the way of just learning meditation somehow. It was probably through the Gita. I think the Gita was probably the first explanation of Raja yoga, most likely. Um, but yeah, it was just, uh, I went through a yoga 200 hour teaching course and that was probably a very fair introduction to the whole idea of Raja yoga,
Rahul N Singh:
mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
which that was just the tip of the iceberg. But still, I think it was a good introduction into it, you know, a good platform.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear because a lot of the, um, nowadays, because these, um, yoga courses are good business, um, they hardly talk about these, um, philosophical aspects now. So it's kind of nice that at least your course talked about, uh, the Gita and how Raja yoga was kind of. Uh, kinda implied by Shri Krishna quite a bit actually. Uh, when we think about it, in fact, if you wanna say the whole, um, I would say the whole Gita itself, the underlying aspect is that you're meant to be centred when you read it and it's, when you're centered, you get that focus like Arjuna where you can finally, you know, get over the, the pains and ailments of life and the material attachments. So it's, it's interesting'cause people would think Shri Krishna is only about one path, or, you know, there's schools of thoughts that'd just be like, oh no, he's only about Bhakti, or he is only about, uh, gyana yoga. But actually it's, I think all four of them are intertwined and infused within it, and you can't deny one over the other. But like you said, everyone can have a pre, uh, preference and. Again, that's according to your karma or your past lives. Do you believe in past lives and, um, and, and what's been your experience in like having, uh, maybe interviews with people who've spoken about their past lives? Have you ever had that? And, um, and what's your view about it in general?
Gary Haskins:
Oh man. Depends on the day. Um, I'm more inclined to say yes, that we do have past lives. It seems to be the way of things somehow, some way we are born over and over and over again. That might be why some of us have certain inclinations that others don't have. It's just like a remnants of past lives, other karma that we have to reap. You know, why are some people so good when they're born that guitar, or they're so such good singers, or just have a knack. We all have our knacks, so most likely it's remnants from other lives, and it seems just right, man. Doesn't it like when you meditate on reincarnation, it seems like, yeah, that's just, that's just how it be. That's just how it is. And one could say, oh, you're just coping because you're afraid to die like you wanna be reborn. No. Actually, that's not the good news. If you look into Eastern philosophy, you don't wanna live forever. Like that's the bad news. Yeah. You've been in this thing for millions and millions and millions of lives. It's called Samsara, and you don't wanna do that again. So it's not a coping mechanism, it's just actually facing the truth that, whoa. Wait a second. I'm in this perpetual, I was gonna say trap. It's not really a trap because you don't wanna look at it like that, but it, if you're not aware of it, it could be a trap. Like if you're not aware of samsara, it's a trap of ultimate ignorance. So point of the story is, yes, I do believe in it. Um, and it's not because I want to believe in it what You It's not because my fear is convincing me that like, oh yeah, we live forever. No, it's actually seems like that's just how it is. That's just the game, I guess you could say. And I don't think you can read that from a book. I don't think it's something that somebody can tell you. You just have to go within yourself. Meditate, earnestly, can't emphasize that enough, and just that would just become apparent. It just becomes apparent. I'm not a hundred percent sure of it. I'm not a hundred percent sure of anything, but it just seems likely, very likely, that that is the thing.
Rahul N Singh:
You, you mentioned I, I liked what you said about how some people can utilize it. as a coping mechanism, and there's so many people, that would turn around and say, well, I don't, you know, maybe in my next life I can look at spirituality. A lot of people in the Indian diaspora will say this, and it's like, um, and my, my guru ones asked this question, how do you not know that this is your last life? You know, why are you thinking that your last life is in the next one? It could actually be in it right now. So it's interesting that you said that, and I think a lot of people do utilize it as a coping mechanism to kind of perpetuate the ignorance and keep it going. That's, yeah. That was really cool, man.
Gary Haskins:
thanks
Rahul N Singh:
cool.
Gary Haskins:
I don't believe it matters. I think, uh, if this is our last one,
Rahul N Singh:
Mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
or if we have a million after this, it doesn't matter, as in what I'm supposed to do here. The Dharma that Gary imbues into the world isn't affected by millions of lives or this only life.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
If you're truly, if you're truly following your Dharma in this life, it doesn't matter. That's just like another narrative. That's just another story. So you know what I mean by that.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm following. I'm following.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, yeah, So I don't like to get caught up in that.'cause that can just be another story. That can just be like another trap. It's cool to talk about, and obviously I've talked about it plenty, and it's cool to entertain, but at the end of the day, if you're truly, you know, in the now, in the here and now following one's Dharma, going with the logos.
Rahul N Singh:
Mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
you're truly present, like, truly present, like true presence, it doesn't matter. It really, it's like, what, what? Doesn't matter, man. Be here now. Right? I'll tell you this story and hopefully I don't mess it up, and you've probably heard it, most likely you've heard it before. There was this monk who was traveling on the road to heaven, on the road to God. And, uh, along the way he came across this dancing man and, uh. He said, Hey, what's up man? And he said, Hey, where you going? Oh, I'm just going to heaven and talk to God. He said, oh cool. Can you ask him how many lifetimes I got left? Yeah, for sure. Walks on. Walks on by, then he sees another man sitting. The lotus posture, you know, the cliche monk just meditating under the Bodhi tree interrupts his meditation. Hello sir. Hi. Uh, what's going on? Oh, I'm just going to visit God going to heaven. Oh, cool. Uh, can you ask him how many lifetimes I got left? Yeah, sure, sure. So goes there, talks to God, lets him know the deal. On the way back he sees, let not mess this up. Yes. He sees the monk again and he says, you know, obviously, did you talk to God? Yeah, man. Uh, well, how many lifetimes I got left? He said about five. And right then and there, the monk came out of his meditation posture. Angry. He's like, what do you mean five? I've been doing this, I've been on the path doing all of these modalities, you know, cliche, Raja yogi, just angry, just furious. What do you mean five lifetimes? So obviously that guy had to get outta there'cause the monk was getting angry. He was, he wasn't happy about the news. And he moves on further down the path and he sees the dancing man just exuberant. Just, oh, he's just, he's just, he's just having a great old time. Right. Hey, what's up man? Just talk to God. Yeah. How many lifetimes I got left? He said, oh, 5 million. And then the dancing man goes, that's it. And he continues dancing on and on. And he is just, just still just dancing, how he was dancing before and keeps going. The guy keeps going that talked to God. And that's, that's it. And that's the moral of the story is it doesn't really, how do I put this? You have to be present, man. It doesn't really matter what you do. It doesn't matter how many lifetimes you have left. You kind of just have to dance the dance, you know? Um, the spiritual path isn't something that looks a certain way to one person. I mean, well, how do I put this? It may look a certain way to one person, but it may apply differently to you. So
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm,
Gary Haskins:
the, how do I put this man, the monk, he only had five, right? He may look like a spiritual person.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm,
Gary Haskins:
He may look, he look, he's look like he's in the moment, but when he got the news that he, he had five, he's pissed off.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
Seems like a lot to him. Wasn't he doing a lot of work? And then the dancing man, he had 5 million. He was okay with it. So who was more enlightened? I'd say the dancing Man.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. I, I'll go with that too.
Gary Haskins:
You like it? It's, it's, I like that story. I mean, one could argue and be like, well, is he really more enlightened if he has 5 million lifetimes left? I get that. But that's kind of going beyond the story.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gary Haskins:
The story is be here now and your, your, the spiritual path is kind of different for everybody. And if you're truly here now, I guess it doesn't matter. I don't know
Rahul N Singh:
That's, that's true. No, no, no. That's true. That's true. I really like that story. I've heard it before. but it's, it's a story that really, I think no matter how many times you listen to it, uh, there's always another teaching you get from it, another element that you can grasp and, another nuance that can deepen your understanding as you mentioned
Gary Haskins:
stories are like that. All like, um, poetic, how do I put this? Poetic? What are those called? What is, there's gotta be a term for that. I know There is like stories of the Bible.
Rahul N Singh:
the parables.
Gary Haskins:
Parables. That's the word I was looking for. A true, poetic, good parable is like that. You hear it five 50 times and all of those 50 times are different. Maybe it even gets better every time you hear it. I, hope I told it right. I don't even know I, told it right.
Rahul N Singh:
I think you did. If not, it's a better version. So
Gary Haskins:
Yeah,
Rahul N Singh:
it's an evolved version. Um, and that's the way it should be. I don't think, you know, some people like things to be rigid in the way the story was told before, but sometimes when you add your own flavouring and you are open about it, it's kind of, it actually helps, um, to bring more nuance. I, that's what I think anyway.
Gary Haskins:
too, man. And I think that's what we're doing. Um, right now, once you link up to the Dharma, this may seem a little esoteric, but I'll be going there, man. When you, once you link up to the Dharma, you become part of the story. So the story's not yet finished. The story's still ongoing. I feel like we've, we think we've reached the end of evolution, evolution of consciousness, evolution of our bodies, and, you know, in that, in that way. But no, we're still evolving towards something else, and I feel like. It's a sort of story. It's a sort of adventure that started millions and millions and millions of years ago. And you can become a part of it if you really want to.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
You know, like you can really, and you become a part of that with the word, like the word is somehow in the parable. In the parable is that we tell to each other, we become a part of that. It's quite powerful.
Rahul N Singh:
you do. And, and, and you're absolutely right man. Like a lot of people they think stories. Aren't important. And they do have a place. And I think at least if you are beginning, you should start with stories because it's a great way to use your imagination and to kind of, and I think imagination, uh, brings you to intuition eventually that, and that's when you can start grasping the deeper philosophies. Otherwise, if you go straight to the deeper philosophies, one, you may become as dry as hell. And two, um, you know, you will miss I think the juice of the truth.
Gary Haskins:
I
Rahul N Singh:
you
Gary Haskins:
agree.
Rahul N Singh:
you can miss
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, because there's something about poetry that brings you beyond the mind, the mind stuff, just beyond the story itself. Like there's something where the story in a good parable or a good poem brings you to that place. The mind of the mind.
Rahul N Singh:
yes, yes. yes.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
totally get it, man. Like, I think, well, if you think about it, every, uh, like the Bhagavad Gita is actually a poem. It's a song,
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. It's
Rahul N Singh:
the
Gary Haskins:
Lord. of the mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
the Ashtavakra Gita is a song, the song of Ashtavakra. You have the most radical non-duality. So it's like everything is done in poetic form. In fact, the Vedas, the Upanishads is purely poetry. And I think people sometimes miss out on the fact that'cause they see written, uh, and then they see the commentary. They think, oh yeah, that must be like some, uh, you know, it's not, it's not a poem. It's not a poem, but it really is. And I'm with you. Uh, I think, I think there's a lot like when you read a poem of Rumi's and it can sometimes take you to that oneness straight away. And it's not the words actually, it like there's something that's happening behind the words. It, it's phenomenal, man.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, Right. It is. Behind the words. That's a good way to put it. It's the magic behind the words.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
It's like a
Rahul N Singh:
you, that's a translation. Mind you, that's a translation as
Gary Haskins:
That's true too. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. There's something special about Sanskrit. I imagine if I was fluent in Sanskrit, it would hit differently
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think so. Um, sometimes I I listen to the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads, now you can it on, it's on Apple Music. I'm sure it's on Spotify too. Um, where you can like, listen, I'm sure it's on YouTube, uh, where you can listen to, uh, pe like monks chanting. The Bhagavad Gita. And
Gary Haskins:
Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
I, I will tell you, it's a crazy experience just even listening to it, uh, even though I don't understand the Sanskrit, but there's a power behind, uh, there's a vibration behind those sounds of the eternal, you know
Gary Haskins:
Some kind of transmission,
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Which cannot be denied.
Gary Haskins:
I mean, have you ever done kirtan with a group of people?
Rahul N Singh:
Um, never with a group of, well, yeah, we, I have actually, um, I, I've been through a few even of the ISKCON you know, when they're singing and the chanting, uh, the second not to none really. Um, I get, I give'em that. I don't agree with their philosophy, but I'll say openly, no one can do kirtan or chanting like them. Uh, like they're brilliant. They're, they're. They're pros, man. But yeah, I,
Gary Haskins:
grows.
Rahul N Singh:
but yeah, I've really, I, I really enjoy it because, uh, like even, um, like I listen to a lot of Sufi, Qawwalis and sometimes the music of the harmonium or the tabla beat, uh, can just take you the place of no sound, if that makes sense.
Gary Haskins:
yeah. You, you like use the sound to go to the place with no sound, where the sound originates from.
Rahul N Singh:
yes. yes.
Gary Haskins:
That
Rahul N Singh:
What about you? What about yourself? Um,
Gary Haskins:
Um,
Rahul N Singh:
been to like Kirtan and, and what's been your experiences when you've attended?
Gary Haskins:
Very, very transcendent and transformative. Every time that I've done group Kirtan, it does transport you to.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
Like you said, the place where the sound comes from, a place of no sound, you almost become the sound, you become the mantra. And I feel as though it's exemplified with a group.'cause I do plenty of kirtan myself,
Rahul N Singh:
Nice.
Gary Haskins:
but when you're with a group, there's something like you all get tuned in and dialed in together. There's something that goes on. And especially Sanskrit, there's something about the connotations of Sanskrit, like the actual, the, uh, how do I, I don't know what the right word is. Is it the verbiage? Like how it comes off of tongue? There's something just like so magical. Like for instance, if you, if you, I have songs that I listen to where it's in Sanskrit and they do it in English, and the same meaning in English. It just doesn't sound the same. It doesn't like the meaning is there. I understand what they're saying, but just how it, I. Just the, the frequency is just completely different. There's something so special about the language man, and um, it's definitely exemplified when you do it with a group. Somehow, someway, there's power to it, but yeah, putting it simply ultimately doesn't really matter what they say. Doesn't really matter what words are used as long as you use it to bring you to that place. The place of no place, you know, the place of stillness, that's all that matters. You could use English, you could use Spanish, whatever language, whatever mantra, whatever reminder, whatever totem you decide to hold doesn't matter. Um, but Sanskrit for some reason is a very effective totem. It's a very effective way to do that. I don't know why
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, I, I, I think that's language in general. Um, but yeah, specifically Sanskrit, I think it's because it's been, uh, it's maintained itself. Uh, although people may argue that there is, um, some people may say, oh, you know, people don't speak Sanskrit as much anymore, and, and stuff like that. There might be some people like that. But the fact that it's maintained itself despite so much invasion that's happened to India, um, the fact that it is still stayed relevant, I think is a testament to its origin.
Gary Haskins:
Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
and, and yeah, it's definitely from, uh, yeah, those rishis that were practicing Raja yoga and they got that transmission and we read those transmissions today, um, or we hear it, uh. It's, you know, it's coming from a place that's beyond this planet and this possibly even this universe, you know? Um,
Gary Haskins:
Oh man. That's good. I was reading something from the Upanishads, from Sri Aurobindo and, oh, I'm not gonna articulate this well. He's so eloquent, man. I don't even know if I wanna try, he's saying that, um, you know, the idea of the word became flesh in the Bible. That is the truth behind, I don't even know if I wanna, um, I don't want to even destroy what he said. But to your point, I'm trying to touch upon your point of like, this didn't come from this universe. He's saying there's certain ways to use the word that we're speaking about now that are very poetic, that point you toward the word of the word, you know? Because word just symbolism, all words are just symbolizing something. But if you use'em in the right way, one that attunes with the logos, it turns that symbol on itself back in. And it doesn't come from here. Some other like, I mean you could say always here, always one in a true non-dual sense. I get that. But something that is beyond at least the material world. Like there's something God, it brings you to that place where it's all facilitated from. And it might also be because Sanskrit is so old and so well-preserved that it brings you there.'cause there had to be at one point in our evolution of consciousness where there was only one language most likely. Right. It only makes sense. Sanskrit is one of the oldest ones. There's probably just like if there's a branch and a tree of languages, that is probably, it's insane at this point. Sanskrit is probably very close to the base layer of the original language. In the original language, most likely is the closest that was to God. Most likely. If I had to imagine the original human language came from like intuition and I believe intuition is all stemming from God. So most likely the further you go down the, the, the tree of language, you get closer to the symbolism that brings you most efficiently to God or most efficiently into the here And now. If that makes sense. You know what I'm getting at?
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And um, and that's an interesting point because if we ever get to experience that original language, I think it is through meditation.
Gary Haskins:
Mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
In my, in my opinion, like that's the only way it could enter. It's not like it's away from our consciousness. It's there, it's present, you know, it is very much there. Nothing ever dies, so you, it's all about just really tapping into it
Gary Haskins:
been there. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. It's not, it's hasn't disappeared. The word, a capital W, it's always there. And I don't think it's gonna be in the form, or it's not even gonna be, it's not in the form. Like when you access the word per se, the logos, it's not in the form of language.
Rahul N Singh:
Yes,
Gary Haskins:
It's through the whispers of intuition. I got that from Yogananda. That's not my original words. It's the whispers of intuition. And if you don't steal the mind and silent the mind enough, you're not going to be able to hear the whispers of your intuition, the whispers of God. It's very subtle and it's not a language. You could compute it as a language, as a forethought, you know? But that comes afterward, like that, that communication, that link up with the word the logos, which I've used plenty. It's, it's something that is, um, you can feel it, you can definitely feel it, become one with it, become very acquainted with the intuitional whispers. But it's not something that is like downloaded, like, um, how do I put this? It's not like a voice in my head,
Rahul N Singh:
yes,
Gary Haskins:
you know what I mean?
Rahul N Singh:
yes.
Gary Haskins:
it's more of just like a subtle direction and subtle discernment that you can tap into, but it's not like I have demons talking to me or anything like
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely not that. Um, it's interesting because, uh, in, in the, uh, Hindu scriptures and also in the Sikh, scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, the the Hindus, we call it the anhadh naad and the Sikhs call it the Anhadh Shabad. And literally it kind of is talking about the sounds that are, they call it celestial, but basically it is beyond our human comprehension. So what you're talking about, I actually kind of vibe with because it's a common practice that you should be able to tap into the anhadh shabad. It. And basically that's like, um, a lot of gurus use that to see if you are actually getting closer to becoming one with the Formless. yeah. That's crazy. Um,
Gary Haskins:
It was meant to be. That's pretty funny.
Rahul N Singh:
uh, yeah. Um, how, how about even knew what to do?
Gary Haskins:
Anhadh shabad
Rahul N Singh:
not, the anhadh shabd has just created the fireworks, so, um, so yeah. Um, yeah, that's what, um, so yeah,
Gary Haskins:
I mess you up?
Rahul N Singh:
no, no, no. Um, but basically it's used as a tool to say that you're getting close to that oneness and
Gary Haskins:
feel that.
Rahul N Singh:
sign if you can hear that. sound. I think what you call the original language you're getting there type of thing. You know, it, it, and it makes sense, like logically, I think it makes sense when you're, like, when I say logically in terms of how the spiritual journey is meant to be, uh, kind of prescribed, if you follow a particular tradition, that's a question. Um, do you feel like there's a value for tradition, uh, like following a particular lineage? Or do you feel that everyone has their own path, but then are there pitfalls to that as well? Um, as much as there's of the obvious, um, positives, you know, and are there pitfalls to that?
Gary Haskins:
Hit me with some good ones, man. These are good. Making me think. Um, I do think there's value to lineage. There definitely was before the internet for sure. I. That's how knowledge was preserved. The only way it could be preserved is pretty much through a long game of telephone, through initiated right? We didn't have the internet. We didn't have record keeping like that. We had books, but it wasn't the same. And in Lineage, like, how do I put this? It preserves knowledge that originally came from the source, right? So when I see a monk, especially a Buddhist monk, I see Buddha because really, what's that? What that is supposed to be is a link, maybe like a hundred, 200 links, I don't know the exact number, but 200 links all the way to the Buddha's, original Dharma.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
And each time the link, the chain link was made was one person originally started with Buddha that said, yep, you have the ability. You have my, go ahead. My okay. To preserve this dharma and spread it onto others and also initiate others in the process. That's so powerful. That's some, that's so that's some Jedi stuff right there.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
I believe that is the, uh, importance of lineage is preserving original dharma.'cause if not, then it gets muddy. You know, there's so much BS of spirituality on the internet. It's like, and even before the internet, there's just, anyone could be spiritual, anyone can call themselves a monk. But to have a lineage of tradition preserves just like truth, really. Truth is something that is transmitted through generation to people, to people, to people. And um, yeah, you don't, you don't need it. You don't need to have, you don't need to be a monk for sure, uh, in order to have that knowledge bestowed upon you. But I do believe to have that knowledge preserved for all of humanity, we do need to have a lineage where people initiate each other.'cause if everybody can just, if everybody can just kind of spew forth the Dharma, I don't know. It could get, uh, misconstrued. It can get lost in literal translation, it can get lost in interpretation. There's just so much wonkiness that could come from it. And I think that's happening, to be honest with you. I do believe that's happening. So, moral of the story, actually. How do I, how do I tie this all together because it was kind of a two-pronged question. Tradition is important, lineage is very important, but also we live in a beautiful time where you don't need to, you don't need that at all to be honest with you. You have to have a keen eye. The whispers of intuition to lead you along the way, if not, you will get sucked into pseudo spirituality and just BS. Keep it frank. So if you don't have that, then I don't know what to tell you. I would approach a monk. I would approach people like that if you like. If you don't know where to start, yeah, go to people that know what they're talking about, or at least seem like they know what they're talking about. Go to people that you know monks, if you can. There's plenty online. There's plenty, and that's how I see them. Like when I approach monks and talk to monks, I'm like, okay, these are people of the Dharma. I'm gonna approach them and try to just be a, a genuinely curious inquisitor when I'm with them. And I've come to find, I used to be intimidated by monks because I'm like, what are this? You know, they're like Jedi, like I said, but I've come to find that they love to do that because that is literally their job. That is their Dharma. That is their sadhana. Here they are the, the preservers of the Dharma. And also they just want to get the message out. They want to spread the Dharma because they have been initiated to do so. Um, so if you are on the internet, I would recommend this personally. If you are on the internet, you are seeking genuine truth. See if you can find some initiated monks, initiated people and start there. So it's both. You can do this yourself, but it can get messy. So do it yourself, but when you're doing it yourself, find a lineage.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. That's, that's nice. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, uh, the reason why I ask that, because you must have interviewed people who probably will be like, there's no need for a lineage or there's, there's, um, you know, everyone has their own in it's, it is a good, um, spiritual bypassing way of when people say everyone has their own journey. Um, so it's kind of like, that's why I was asked a question because how do you kind of, when you come across people like that, when you interview them, how do you like kind of, uh, do you ever like probe into that a bit or do you think something best not to be touched type of thing,
Gary Haskins:
Probe into what?
Rahul N Singh:
like why they feel that they don't need to be part of a lineage and why That is, why they think lineages are messy. You know, they, they can be a totally other side to this.
Gary Haskins:
hmm. That's a good question. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever asked anybody that. I've never really, I don't really read probe like that. I just let people have their opinion. You know, I don't try to challenge, but I'm trying to understand like why someone would think like that. I think it's just a lack of understanding within themselves of what the Dharma truly is.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
And because you can learn a lot without a lineage for sure, but I feel as though you're just missing something. You're just like, you're not, I don't know, you're just,'cause I wasn't on that wavelength I wasn't always talking monks, I wasn't always reading the Upanishads and the Gita and the Dao de Ching and stuff like that. I wasn't reading the classics. Like I got into spirituality, like I said, through meditation. But then it was just through from there, you know, um, my Jnana yoga took over, right? And I went onto the internet and it didn't start with going to a lineage. I, I don't know how it started. Yeah. Just regular people talking about online, I guess it's just regular YouTubers talking spirituality, using certain buzzwords and parroting and it, that only goes so far. Like it gets you there. It's better than not, I guess, you know, it's better than just talking about the Yankees, I guess. I'm not hating on that, but I'm just saying like, uh. You know, it's better than nothing, but it only goes so far because there's something special about someone who lives the Dharma.'cause monks, man, I revere them so much. I revere'em so much. They not only know their stuff off the top of their head, they live their stuff. That is their life. Their whole life is the ritual. Their life is the Dharma, like I said. So you're not getting that from somebody, just some random YouTuber online. You're not like there's a missing link there. And it's that they're not really living the Dharma and not necessarily, I'm not saying everybody has to become a monk
Rahul N Singh:
Right.
Gary Haskins:
uh, you know, someone that has, is worthy of knowledge. It's not, it's, it's hard because we're talking to generalities here. You know, everybody's different. Everybody who you resonate with is gonna be different from who I resonate with. So it's hard to say. In a general sense, very general sense. Monks just know what they're talking about because they walk the walk, you know, they don't just talk about it. It's not just theory. It's like they're really living that life. They're living the Dharma, as I said. So, um, yeah, it's hard to talk in generalities like that, but I would say there's a very large correlation of, um, monks that just know what they're talking about that are aligned with truth. It's, it is not a causation for sure. There's definitely some wonky monks for sure. Like, it doesn't, it's not a guarantee, but it's definitely a correlation between solid knowledge,
Rahul N Singh:
Uh, I, uh,
Gary Haskins:
solid wisdom.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, yeah. No, I'm with you because I think it's interesting, um, you know, the few, uh, wonky monks as you talk, as you mentioned, uh, they, they are few and far between actually, uh, when you think about it. Yeah. The, the most decent ones. Yeah, they're not gonna be in your face. Uh, they're gonna be there on YouTube, but you're gonna have to search for it. Um, and you know, for example, like a Ramana Maharishi in India is not in Rishikesh or Haridwar or, uh, Delhi or Mumbai. He, uh, he is in some remote place in Southern India. You know, like, so, uh, using that analogy for, same thing with the internet. I mean, you know, the genuine ones maybe are not what the algorithm wants to present you with. You
Gary Haskins:
that's for sure.
Rahul N Singh:
you have to bypass the algorithm. Uh, that's the highways of, uh, that's the highways of India. Um, but yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I, I'm totally with you on that. I think sometimes people get too anti-guru and or. And it's just, I disservice
Gary Haskins:
Understandable.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, it is understandable if you've been burned, but a lot of people haven't been burned and they cook up, they cook up someone else's story as their own. Um, which again, I think can trap you, uh, in, and what tends to happen, I find, is if people haven't actually gone through that path, they, um, like have actually gone to a teacher and learned, uh, if they read somewhere that, you know, something bad has happened, they'd be like, they're like, speak from it, from the microphone, like from their loudspeaker and just be like booming that, uh, kind of thing. And I find that's a bit sad sometimes. Um, but uh, again, I'd say a majority of people I know are more open. Uh. Especially now, again, with YouTube, I think it has opened the floodgates where you can get a few really nice swamis who've got popular. Um, and I think it's done some service into showing that not everyone is a charlatan. Some are pretty cool. Um, and some are actually pretty funny. Um, so it's, it's kind of interesting. Um, is there any one, any teachers, uh, you know, may, maybe two or three that you feel have really made a strong impact on you, and what is it about them or their teachings that created that impact?
Gary Haskins:
Hit me with the good ones. Um, you have some good questions. Hmm. Well, all of my teachers are not in their body anymore.
Rahul N Singh:
Mm-Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
Like ones that I revered that really, you know, sullied me along this path, they're, they came and went, and you could still say they're here in their word, but they came and went. Number one is Ram dass
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
for sure. Ram Dass. Something about his eloquence. And his humor. Like you said something about humor in a teacher, they gotta be funny, somewhat funny because it's like when you start to take them a little too seriously and what they're saying a little too seriously, they throw a good joke in there, let you, you know, weight off your shoulders, let you take it all less seriously. That's important. It's very important. And I think it's important so that you don't mistake the finger pointing at the moon.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
I think there's something about humor that lets you, you know, there's something that just says, ah, no, I'm not the answer. There's something but a good joke. Good teacher with humor. But, um, Yeah. so it was Ram, Dass, who else? One that is not associated with yoga. Uh, Terrence McKenna. He's up there. Who else, man? Who else? There's definitely a list. I have a list of masters. Let me actually, let me take a few seconds. I have a list of masters just because I wanted to make one, one day
Rahul N Singh:
Oh, that's pretty cool.
Gary Haskins:
Influential teachers. Let's see, let's see if I can find her real quick. Sorry. This is
Rahul N Singh:
No, no.
Gary Haskins:
is brought to you by,
Rahul N Singh:
You can buy this Yogi tea.
Gary Haskins:
I got it. So this is, this is my list of Masters 19. I have 20. I never got to number 20. It's like I have the 20, but I never like, I never put the name in. I guess. I'm just trying to think of one. All right, here we go. Ram Dass. Buddha Alan Watts. Swami Satyachitananda. Yogananda and the Kriya Lineage. I like to think of them as like one, you know, like Yogananda's, whole Lineage. Nhat Hanh. Sri Aurobindo. Jesus. Swami Sivananda. Swami Vivekananda. Bhikkhu. Buddhadasa. Lao Tzu. Terence McKenna. Jiddu. Krishnamurti. Ramana Maharshi. Nisargadatta Maharaj. Aldous Huxley. Eckhart. Tolle and Mooji. And that's my list. It's Work in Progress. Think it's, I saw a list.
Rahul N Singh:
That's a pretty good list. That's a very
Gary Haskins:
But some of them Mooji still alive. I said some of'em aren't in their body. Mooji and Eckhart, Tolle. I think those are the only two guys that I,
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. And do you say Swami? Siva. Devananda,
Gary Haskins:
Sivananda.
Rahul N Singh:
Oh, Siva. Devananda, yeah. He's passed away. Yeah. the yeah. Yeah, he's passed. Um, his, um, uh, his, uh, commentary on the Brahma Sutras a pretty good. Um, I really like them. Yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's quite comprehensive, but it's pretty good.
Gary Haskins:
You're quite learned. You're, you have read many texts, quite intimidated in that way. Like, you know, you've read stuff that I haven't read.
Rahul N Singh:
Uh, sometimes, but again, um, although, yeah, I may have read a bit, but, uh, I always feel like there still so much more I could read. Like I still feel like I've read nothing compared to there isn't ocean ahead of me. And I've, I'm still collecting shells, you know, and that's what I feel like.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
but yeah,
Gary Haskins:
wrhen are you gonna wite your own book?
Rahul N Singh:
but you know, I've written two poetry books, um, but I kind of want to do a third one'cause I feel like I've again, evolved so much since then. Um, some evolution could be good or bad, you know, I think there's both in that. Um, but yeah, I think, and now I've got a newborn, so now I've been thinking, oh, if I want to, I want to introduce him to spirituality, how can I do it in a simple way? So he doesn't get confused.
Gary Haskins:
How old
Rahul N Singh:
he's four months. Um,
Gary Haskins:
first son?
Rahul N Singh:
first son first one. This child. Yeah. So he's triggered that thought that I wanna create a book, um, that is going to kind of explain the basics, only the basics of the foundation, because the rest of it he has to find by himself,
Gary Haskins:
Mm-Hmm
Rahul N Singh:
you know, with the aid of a teacher and, uh, a proper lineage or whatever he chooses. But that should just be the foundation so he doesn't get confused when he gets on that terrain. Um, he can use his discernment, his vivek quite well, and that's big in today's day. I mean, if he's too big today, imagine what it's gonna be like in 10, 20 years. I mean, he knows what it's gonna look like, so,
Gary Haskins:
Hopefully exemplified, hopefully to the nth degree of where it is now. But it's up to us, up to us creators, to be the shining example for the next generation. Not even us creators. Us as parents. I truly believe that's how we change the world, you know, because podcasts and books really aren't gonna change people's mind. They can help guide for sure. But really how we change, it's how we change, how we change the world, is through our upbringing. Our upbringing of our children. I believe that's really where this all comes from.'cause imagine, I don't know, I've definitely asked you about your path, but I forget to be honest. But, um, I imagine for myself, I could easily have been on this wavelength if I had the guidance from an early age, you know, if my parents led me there, which they didn't, if my community led me there, which it didn't. Can you imagine? Well, I imagine not having to go through the struggle, not having to go through those mental ailments. I talked about, you know, not having to suffer to get aligned with God. Imagine you're just born, that's such good karma to be born. I'm not trying to, you know, not trying to, um, toot your horn here, but it's such good karma to be born in a yogic household. I, I can't imagine like you're, uh, it's a blessing. Seriously, to be, to be, uh, to be able to be guided from that age. I can't imagine he's gonna be a superhuman, you know, if all goes well.
Rahul N Singh:
I hope so. I hope so. I mean, um, he, but it's, what you said is quite interesting. Uh, and, and what, what I've found actually, like even if someone is brought up in a really, in kinda strong spiritual household, it can go the other way. Like, um, and, and also you people, what I've also started to discover is it doesn't get rid of, um, the kind of people getting depression or getting mental ailments, uh, even if they have that spiritual teaching. In fact, sometimes it can do the opposite. People can become blind to the truth that's right in front of them.
Gary Haskins:
Hidden in plain
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. And, and or they take it too lightly and, um,
Gary Haskins:
true. Yeah. It's almost like you don't know any better because you haven't known any different like, this is it. Yeah, this is it. This is my life. And you don't, yeah, that is true. I could see why it would be like you wouldn't want anything to do with it, because that's all you know. So I guess there is an importance of guidance in any path. It doesn't have to be your children guiding somebody, but only if they want to be guided. Like don't force it. If you force your children onto the path, you're not doing them any service. Ultimately, even if they are your children. We all have to do it ourselves. Like you, you ultimately, all, you have to have your own inclination within to follow this pursuit of the path. yeah. No one's gonna do it for you, even if it's your dad.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. Like, but there is the pressure and I think the pressure's always this and it, and it eventually when you probe into like people and you inquire about why the fireworks keep going on, I dunno what's going on here. Um, I think the main thing that happens is, um, the parents aren't living the teaching
Gary Haskins:
mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
that is the biggest, uh, kind of, uh, kind of, kind of reason. I know a lot of my friends have kind of backed up and said, I don't believe in this because of my parents. They're hypocrites and it's like.
Gary Haskins:
Interesting.
Rahul N Singh:
Wow. Uh, so, and, and it's actually a real big thing. I find it's so easy to be a hypocrite on this spiritual path. I mean, it is, I mean, I hate when people say, oh, it's all about love and truth, but the path towards being towards hypocrisy, it's so freaking easy.
Gary Haskins:
Mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
It's unbelievable.
Gary Haskins:
we're talking general out generalities obviously, so I do believe if you are not faking it and you're not a hypocritical parent, like you're really true, true yogis, which is, that's rare. That's rare. I think that's actually in the Bhagavad Gita. I'm pretty sure there's a passage where if you're born. To, um, yogi parents. That's some really good karma, man. Really good karma. So if you are truly born in that household, I think it's a blessing for sure. But it could be, if not in a good household, a blessing in disguise. I'm sorry, not a blessing in disguise. Um, a blessing that is a facade. It's not really like,'cause the, they're living a facade. The parents are living a fake, yogic life, A fake spiritual life. I could definitely see that for sure. But if, if you're real, like, if you're real, if you're really aligned, which I don't even know what that looks like. I don't think I've ever met any true yogic parents, to be honest with you. Maybe you're the first, uh, but if you really are aligned, I think it is truly a blessing. Uh, it's just, obviously it's hard to talk in generalities like that. There's 7 billion people on earth, so it's hard to say.
Rahul N Singh:
And I, I think you are, um, I think you're right. I mean, uh, it's. Definitely, uh, well, what he said in the Gita is very true. And I, you know, me and my wife, we struggled to, um, conceive. There was no reason, you know, we were trying for a couple of years, but one day I read that passage, uh, in the Gita and I was like, you know what? Whenever nature feels that a child is ready to be born in this house, it's gonna happen and be, and nothing in the world can stop that from happening. And um, and maybe it is a really, like now in inside I, feel it. I never say I never express it, but I think yeah. That must be a special Jeev or an Atma that's coming to our house and I've gotta serve him, you know, not the other way round where, you know, I'll go be the high and mighty dad and, you know,
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. Yeah,
Rahul N Singh:
gone is that type of old, but now he's like, I've gotta really like, serve him properly. And, um, and you know, and, and I think I made conscious choices to ensure none of the generational trauma gets passed, um, from, you know, whatever I had to deal with was my, was my baggage. It's not, it's got got nothing to do with him and he should not, uh, bear the burden of that.
Gary Haskins:
That's huge.
Rahul N Singh:
so it's, it's constant work.
Gary Haskins:
Mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
It's, it's re I think it's necessary, um, absolutely necessary. Um,
Gary Haskins:
that's, uh, that's service. That service right there, man. The yoga of parenting, that's a whole nother level.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Um,
Gary Haskins:
imagine. I don't know. I don't have any children, so I don't know that feeling like, would, I've heard this plenty of times. Like you, you don't know until you have a kid. Like do you, do you feel that now with a four month old? Is there something about when you actually have the child, like there is something that is almost instilled in you that you didn't feel before you had your child.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, you know, I have spoken about this, um, but the moment he was born,
Gary Haskins:
Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
knew what unconditional love actually felt like.
Gary Haskins:
That's powerful, man. That's crazy.
Rahul N Singh:
I could, like, can I actually search for it? Like, I, I tried to find the beginning of this love and I couldn't,
Gary Haskins:
What about when you first knew that your wife was, pregnant? Did, did you have that
Rahul N Singh:
I think it was, I. It, it is, doesn't feel real till you hold him in your or her in your arms and you're like, ah, this is, this is, um, this is a gift. And, and that's the way I saw it. And, I still see it despite the amount of diapers I've changed and, and all that. Um, but
Gary Haskins:
the yoga.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, and yeah, I just that's one thing I really felt like I now understood what unconditional love felt like, and I can actually not just limit it to him. I can now share that everywhere. And I think that means that every parent possibly has access to this. It's just about whether they are in tuned to that feeling. Um, I think everyone, every parent will feel that unconditional love. But whether to transfer that to and share that to the world is a conscious choice. I feel not, something that's naturally, I think'cause we are not, we are hardwired, well, I believe we are hardwired to give unconditional love, but we have learned to only limit our love to our circle type of thing.
Gary Haskins:
mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
So that's the boundary you keep yourself in, so, um,
Gary Haskins:
Our family
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. yeah. So, and you always have that special affection with your family at, you know, but at, and you'd always give that special attention to them, but that doesn't mean that your love is less for a stranger on the road. You know, it's, it's just different. Um, but yeah, that's what that, that's the one feeling. Um, and we, and me and my little boy Krish, we, we have this thing of, we at night time, we'll read the, well, we'll listen to the Nirvanashatakam of Adi Shankara in Sanskrit, and then we'll do our personal mantra prayer. And, um, and then he falls asleep to that. So it's kind of, it's, it's a beautiful ritual that I, I, I love. And he smiles when he hears the music come on. Like, he knows, oh, this is coming, even though it is bedtime. And I'm sure he hates bedtime, but, um, but like, it's, uh, it's really nice to see, you know, when I say to him, you know, Shivoham, Shivoham, he just smiles. It's just, it's, it's, it's really amazing.
Gary Haskins:
Oh man, that's, that's powerful stuff. I mean, some say that children, I've heard stories of, um, how do I put this? Like children just saying mantra Sanskrit mantras. They just know them
Rahul N Singh:
Oh,
Gary Haskins:
somehow some way, and if there are multiple lives, like they're more tuned in with that source. And we said that Sanskrit is tuned in to source. Uh, I don't know. It makes sense. Like they're, they're able to draw on this residual memory, the mind of the mind a little easier'cause they're just closer to it. They're more pure beings.'cause we're all there. We just get, uh, we get all right, we get, I was gonna say dirtied. We get dirtied along the way. Impure, right. We just gotta, we gotta purify ourselves to be able to see that it's always there. But the children, they're, they, if you're truly, you know, a, a children is, is pure consciousness, essentially. They the most pure form of consciousness that we can see in the material form. So like, they must just naturally resonate with that stuff. If there is some truth to the resonance and frequency of Sanskrit, there's gotta be something to children just loving that naturally. There's gotta be, I don't know. maybe, uh, maybe I'm just a little, I don't know. Maybe it's gotta be, it's gotta
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. No, no. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, a lot of the, uh, a lot of teachers, um, and a lot of spiritual thought is that a child comes in more or less with less baggage, uh, because then we accumulate more baggage as we grow older. Um, so yeah, they come in with that. Uh, and also, they don't have any past to remember. Everything else is just muscle memory if you look at it physically but in terms of actual memory that we keep, that is sentimental and emotional, that's something that we kind of get at, at a later age. And, so yeah, they have that ability. And I guess it's, those are the formative years. Maybe, you know, what we're talking about, about getting, you know, giving the right introduction, that is formative years after that, then it's kind of like, yeah, you just have to kind of work it out and you'll get there type of thing.
Gary Haskins:
it's definitely the formative years for everybody that serves as a foundation for everything else in our life. It's our childhood and our upbringing. It's interesting because it's, most of it is not up to us. It's not up to our will. Just something that we're, you know, just happens to us, our childhood, everything, yeah. Just happens to us. Yeah. man, that's makes me believe in karma even more. Like how much our childhood and our upbringing affects who we are as individuals and how we live the Dharma, how it comes to us, makes me believe that we, there's not a lot, how do I put this? I was gonna say, we don't have a lot of say in it. You know, there's, we're just kind of, kind of strung along.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
In Samsara, we're strung along through our karma and childhood is seems to be like our upbringing, seems to be somewhere where a lot of us reap karma very quickly. You know, like a lot of us reap the cause and effect of karma, the effect if there aren't previous lives that we create causes from, it seems to be our childhood is somewhere where the effects really come into being.
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm. Yes. Yes. So, I, I would like to ask you, no, those wonderful thoughts and deep, profound thoughts. But like, have you felt that in your own, spiritual journey, has it been very conflicting with your family or have they been very supportive? Because it's not, you've gone towards the east and you appear as, uh, someone from the west. So, um, so how does, um, yeah, and how has that been for you? I mean, is it, is it easy as people make it out to be, or is it pretty challenging?
Gary Haskins:
Um, for the family life, they don't understand. I try to be, uh, evangelical about it in the beginning ultimately I felt how Yeah, exactly.'cause I think it's just the byproduct.'cause I felt how good I felt, so I'm like, I just wanna bring everybody along, but. It's not that easy. You can't just, you know, it's not that easy. Like we said before, you have to bring yourself to the path. Nobody else is really gonna do it for you, and you can't force it upon anybody. So, um, yeah, my family don't, they don't really understand. I'm still very close with them, but they just unconditionally love me either way. They probably just think I'm onto some craziness. Maybe I am to a certain extent, but they don't, they don't have any idea about what they have no inclination toward yogic philosophy, unfortunately. Um, maybe someday, who knows? Maybe that's just not how it was meant to be. You know, that's not in the cards, that's not how the cards were dealt. But, um, they're fully supportive and they fully love me, and that's really all that matters. Unconditional love, you know, that's really all that matters, you know? Um, so it's hasn't really been difficult, to be honest. Maybe there is some misunderstandings along the way on why I do what I do, but at the end of the day, um, doesn't, I don't. I was gonna say, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter, man. Yeah. It doesn't matter what they think. I just, I do what I do and they love me, I love them, and that's it. And yeah, it's as simple as that. I definitely have, uh, been blessed with a supportive family for sure, as in like, supportive, not in the sense of my sadhana, but supportive. Just in and just being present, you know, just being good people, you know, good people, you can be a good person and not be into yogic
Rahul N Singh:
yeah.
Gary Haskins:
So they're just good people and, uh, that's all that matters to me. You know, that's really all that matters.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. That's really nice. That's, that's what matters. I think, even, even like, for example. That's, it's interesting you say that because I just think of, I, I've been to so many, like I went to houses in India and every member of the family believed in a different deity or believed in, and, you know, if someone believed in, like, say Krishna, someone believed in Ram, someone believed, or Hanumanji and everyone would be like, kind of arguing amongst each other, who's the best deity. So I think it, you know, you can also have the, the other side to it. So, uh, I think it's, as long as there's that underlying love and respect, I think that's brilliant. I mean, what more do you want? It, it gets challenging when I guess from, uh, I'll bring it back to like kind of ourselves is when we feel that they are wrong. I think when that happens, uh, that's when spiritual ego kind of takes over. And it doesn't matter if we are part of the yogic philosophy or non-yogic, we have faltered right there and then.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, They're wrong for being them. Very true. The best way to go about it, um, is unconditionally love them back and that's it. So just be there for them. Don't try to like put who you are onto them and it doesn't work like that. And that's where another, where I get into past lives, it's like I most likely was a yogi in a past life built upon this sort of foundation of past lives. And then I was born into this family that is not on the path. They probably weren't on the maybe, but they're not in this one. Um, and that's the thing we have to deal with is like, even if you're in a family, like a, a genetic material family, you're still dealing with like other people's karma, other people's past lives. And that's where it can get really messy. I think just because you're born into somebody's family doesn't mean they're going to align with. Your karma in a way that is yogic. Like it may be like, you know, obviously like you obviously align somehow with the karma, the cause and effect of it all, but it might, you might not have been in the same monastery
Rahul N Singh:
Yes.
Gary Haskins:
in a previous life just because somebody is your mom or your dad and working with that is a yoga as well. Like working with that. Like how do I love these people even though they don't? How do I see these people as God? Ultimately, that's the goal, right? See people as God in drag, even if they don't know they're God, even if they have no inclination toward that whatsoever. That's not even just your parents, but everybody.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah.
Gary Haskins:
the intermingling of all of our karma. That's the, that's the work, right? That's why we go on and do all this stuff so that we can at all times, hopefully, ideally see people as God in drag and unconditionally love them. It's as simple as that. I'm pretty sure we've all heard that before, right?
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
Love is the answer, but that's really what it comes down to, man, we do all this work, we go on the path, all of the meditation, all of the books, all of the reminders so that we can remind ourselves that yes, we are a part of fragment of God, but not just us. That's a sense of solipsism. Everybody else too, they're in on it, even if they don't know, they're in on it. Um, yeah. So that's it. That's really what it comes down to. You have to stay on that wavelength as much as possible. Whatever you gotta do, whatever you gotta do to get there, to have that recognition, go with that. That's what, that's what I say.
Rahul N Singh:
Nice, nice.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, man.
Rahul N Singh:
You mentioned group kirtan, and so I wanted to kind of go into, um. Do you have, um, obviously from the interviews that you do, your YouTube channel,, conscious perspectives, and, um, do you, have you created community from that? And how has that been for you and, and do you find that creating a a a true spiritual community can be challenging in today's times?
Gary Haskins:
I haven't really created that much of a community other than my channel, like I have that serve as the community, but nothing like a virtual sangha. I do have a Discord, not very active in there. Got maybe 30 members. Very low key. I don't advertise it, so I haven't created a community of discourse per Sewa. Um, I just have the YouTube channel serve as that in the comment section in the community section. So not really. Kind of getting there. I know there's definitely people that are a lot more in-depth with, um, their presence in a community such as just court or maybe forums. Um, I haven't felt the need to do that. I don't know why. I don't really feel like is beneficial for me or anybody. I don't know why. I just figured, like just leave a YouTube comment
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
Like, I don't, I don't know why that's just not maybe in the future for sure. Um, I think because I'm, there's a part of me that's afraid to have people see me as the guru or the leader of the commune, per se. I don't want that. I, I don't want that at all, even though I know my YouTube channel is named after me. I don't want necessarily people approaching me with questions. Because, uh, I just don't feel as though that's my sadhana, that's not my service here. Like to be the question and answer guy. There's plenty of others out there like that. I will if people do approach me, and there's sometimes people do, but I don't wanna like actively create that. I don't know why there's something in me. It's like, don't, I don't know. Maybe it's because I do it to check my own ego. Like, uh, I don't feel maybe not integrated enough to be able to have that responsibility. Who knows? Who knows? But I'm talking on the importance of community. I do believe community is very important. So even if you don't find a community with me, even though I do have a low-key community on through my channel, but I do believe it's important to tap in with other people and have discourse with other people in any form of community that you find. Just because, um, I don't know, it's just good discourse is good. It's the three jewels of Buddhism, right? It's the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. I. Listen. Can't negate that one. So I do believe community is extremely important. This path, I, my community is the people, like my person, like people that I view as community is the people that I just come on here and speak with in the conversations just like this. But having one that is centered around me. Hmm. I don't know. That's scary to me. I don't know. I don't want like, to me to be the guy, you know?'cause I I don't know. I just, I just see how it could get, could get a little messy.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Uh, it, it is interesting because, um, obviously I've tried to, I mean, you make, you make that conscious effort to try and bring it about the, um, say the podcast or, you know, um, it's not about me, the person, uh, and. I remember I used to do a lot of lives. Obviously life has changed where I can't do any TikTok lives or YouTube lives and stuff, but I used to get people on, they'd be like, oh, are you a guru? And I'm like, no. I mean, I have a guru, so why would I be a guru myself? And two, I don't, I'm not comfortable with that either. Like I feel, again, I'm not, uh, I'm only, uh, whatever I'm teaching is only what I've learned so far. And I believe there's a lot more that I can share. Uh, and that's, um, and, and learn along the way. So it's like if I'm, if I'm someone who's learning and still kind of, um, trying to progress and trying to get to the ultimate stage of liberation, uh, how can, how can you see me as a, as a, a guru? And so I'm very, and the thing is, the, the worst thing is the moment you put yourself on a pedestal. It's very, you made the, the one, you make that one, uh, kind of, um, you make that one exception to the rule. Then you've, you, you've opened the floodgates.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
So I think it's, yeah, you have to make that conscious choice.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, man. At least you're mature enough to, see that and that you don't wanna do that yourself. Like you're like, you're two steps ahead of yourself. You know your
Rahul N Singh:
have to, you have to man, like, um, like I have Patreon and everything and it is centred. Like I can see it's centred around me and my content. But again, it's the content that's speaking, not me. I mean, I am only there because of the content. The moment the content goes, I do not exist. And I
Gary Haskins:
Haha. Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
I think, uh, once that's set in your brain, um, and once people also know that you're part of a lineage and you have a guru and you, uh, I think people then naturally stop. Um. Kind of trying to actually, people are trying to like, kinda give you the pump, right? They're trying to like kind of prop you up and, um, I think that lessens and I don't get that anymore. Um, which is good. Um, I get a lot more people who just wanna be my friend and I'm like, I can help you as a friend,
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, that's better off.
Rahul N Singh:
and I'm, more comfortable helping you as a friend. Um, because if I give you advice, it can be wrong.
Gary Haskins:
mm-Hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
like a friend, you have to forgive me. Um, and, um, and I will apologize. I have to say sorry. I think, but I think there's a place for people like us who are in the like intermediary position type of thing. Um, you know, we are, we are not monks, but at the same time. Uh, we are kind of the, I would say like we are the, like, I like to see myself as someone who is like this. I would like to be, I would say the, the first good step and, and basically someone's gonna lift you
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. like, an introduction.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. A good introduction and there's someone better than me.
Gary Haskins:
I, I approach it in the same way. yeah. Here's someone way more eloquent than I am.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, yeah. Go to them. Um,
Gary Haskins:
exactly.
Rahul N Singh:
exhaust as much as me as you can. And then, and, and I'm open to say, I, I have my limitation. I have a boundary. Um, so you have to kind of, um, do that. And when you have Q&A's, like especially in those, you have to make sure you set the. Um, it's something Rupert Spira said. I really liked it. He, he was in one of his webinars and he said, um, that when you ask me a question, yes, I'm the teacher, but when I, if I ask you a question and you have to answer, you are now the teacher. I'm now the student. And I like that. I was like, yeah, man, the guy could be a real deal here because he's just said that nobody really likes to say stuff like that. Uh, if they wanna make it big as a, a non-dual teacher. So, um,
Gary Haskins:
mm-Hmm
Rahul N Singh:
so yeah, it's, it's interesting. So I think seeing yourself as a friend is probably more beneficial
Gary Haskins:
hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
uh, someone seeing you as a teacher, I think. Or seeing me, one teacher.
Gary Haskins:
Ultimately that means just seeing yourself as equal.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. I mean,
Gary Haskins:
just because you're a subscriber doesn't mean I'm better than you, or you're a follower of me doesn't mean I'm better. Like, seeing yourself as equal. to everybody else is very important.
Rahul N Singh:
Yes. And ultimately, uh, the philosophy that I follow is that we are all this one formless entity, pure consciousness. So how can I even be better than you? It, it will go against the philosophy that I believe in. You know? Do you see what I mean? So it is like that philosophy doesn't allow me to, that philosophy has liberated me at the same time, has kept me in a nice boundary, uh, uh, a boundary that I know is an illusion, but only I should know it's an illusion. Nobody else, it's nobody else's business. Um,
Gary Haskins:
Uh.
Rahul N Singh:
but, um, but yeah, it's, it's kind of cool. But I was interested to ask you, because like you've interviewed so many people and you know, the interviews I've watched personally have been like kind of. I feel because you are quite centered, the other person naturally kind of grabs that vibe.
Gary Haskins:
I think so sometimes it takes a little bit, by the half an hour mark and like, all right.
Rahul N Singh:
but like, um, but yeah. Uh, but, and I've seen kind of, and you ask from a place of wanting to know more, a desire to kind of, uh, progress yourself. And I think when that happens, when you, I think, you know, I think that's why I was like, you must have a community around him and I wonder what that's like. Um, you know, because you say cool stuff in interviews too, so it's not, you know, um,
Gary Haskins:
stuff in interview. Oh,
Rahul N Singh:
in your, in your, in your
Gary Haskins:
Sometimes here and there. I trickle it in there. Some stuff. Well, on the note of why I don't want to like have any sort of community that I tap in with regularly is because I still do feel as though I'm learning. Like I am genuinely curious and learning. When I come on here, it's not just some kind of show. Like when I bring somebody on, I'm like, all right, well they're the guru and I'm gonna learn from them. And that's how I approach every single interaction. So I don't feel like. Uh, I don't feel like the, my Dharma here, my service here is to be the guru. Uh, my guru ship, if you wanna call me a guru, is to be almost like the, the curious mind of the listener
Rahul N Singh:
hmm.
Gary Haskins:
follow that. That's it. Like I'm the one that ask questions. I don't exactly know how to answer stuff. Sometimes it's very hard to answer stuff'cause you have to answer from a place of generality and that's very tough'cause everybody has their own subjective experience. So it's hard to answer. I really do find it hard to answer some questions. Um, so at this point in time, yeah, I just approach my path is just approaching it as a seeker. And I know people hate to say that word, but just a spiritual seeker and going with that, just genuinely genuine questioning what this person is about. Keeping it, That that's as simple as that man. And uh, there is some kind of community that is formed around that, but not in the sense that like a commune, I'm not starting to commune anytime soon, you know?
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. That would, Yeah. that, that would definitely get headlines.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. It's the cult of Gary. Not yet. I want to not go down that route. I wanna avoid that as much as possible. You know, I don't want that at all. Just want to be the guy, like, you follow me? It's like hands off. Like I approach my creation as very hands-off. Like I'm just, I'm doing me, I'm doing me. And just throwing it out there. You guys can follow me. And that may seem like a little shallow, but that's so that I avoid the complex of like, I'm important. Look at me, I make YouTube videos. You don't, I'm cool. You're not. Like I don't wanna get involved with that. It's very, maybe because I know my own ego, so I do that to check myself. But that's just, that's just how, where I feel that I'm at in the process right now. So I avoid the cult of Gary.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, that's good. That's to know. um,
Gary Haskins:
Also, two steps ahead of my ego. Sorry.
Rahul N Singh:
No. Yeah. And I think that humility, in spirituality is very much required. I think it's one of the basic things we need. If we lack that humility and honesty, I, I don't feel anyone can go far on the
Gary Haskins:
Oh, yeah. yeah. Humility and knowing that you don't know, right? That's Socrates right there.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah.
Gary Haskins:
You have to know that you don't know truly. That's the only thing that I could really say that I know. That's the only truth that I could really convey is that I have no idea. I have really no idea.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. And you know, the, the, the interesting thing here is if to put a Vedantic spin on that you are the awareness that says they don't know. Yeah. Like you are, you are just that awareness.
Gary Haskins:
That's it.
Rahul N Singh:
That says, I don't know. It's simple as
Gary Haskins:
really it. Yeah.
Rahul N Singh:
can, how can anyone get an ego from just being aware it, it's impossible. Well, I'm sure people can make it a possibility, but I find it to be impossible.'cause nothing sticks to it.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah, If you're truly living that awareness, then no, you're not going to be inclined to have an ego. But it's so like, it's hard, man. It's not easy to do. There's a reason why we revere people like Romana Maharshi, and saints of that nature, because they are there. That's, that's them. That's them few and far between. They're a saint for a reason.
Rahul N Singh:
Yes.
Gary Haskins:
There's other people that seem saintly. They wear the robes, they change their name.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
They have charisma, but they're not actually acting from that place. And this is the, this is the topic that I like to get into with people. It's like, all right, so now that you, here, you have this awareness, you have the sense of oneness, you have the sense of self with the uppercase S. How does that change how we see you? How do you act? Like, how does that change your will here?'cause that's what's really important, right? How? How we change our ourself. So if you really are resonating in that frequency, the frequency of unconditional love of God, you're way past your egotistical manifestations. Like they're not gonna take a hold of you if you're really there. It's not, you don't have to worry about. Starting a cult, it just won't happen. Now your character won't allow that to happen. You know, it's, um, it's just like a changing of will, like universal will trumps the ego,
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
no matter what. But it's easy to bypass that and think you are the divine holy one. That's like the last trap, right? The spiritual trap. That, that, that's where the guru complex comes
Rahul N Singh:
yeah, yeah.
Gary Haskins:
they're there, they think they've mastered it all, but mm-hmm. It's just the ego. It's just the ego. And that could be a really tricky trap. How do you dispel the spiritual ego when you think you've made it per se?
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
Oh, that's tough. I feel like That's some bad karma.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah. I
Gary Haskins:
The, guru that is the fake guru, you
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. Do you ever get like asked, are you enlightened?
Gary Haskins:
hmm.
Rahul N Singh:
the only in the comments just like, be like, are
Gary Haskins:
I've got a question one time. Are you a Bodhi sattva? And I didn't know how to answer that. I said, we're all the Bodhisattva. I've got one person that said, you are my guru, or I see you as my guru. I'm like, oh God, don't say that. And yeah, I've gotten that. I don't think I've ever gotten, are you enlightened? Because I'm usually the one asking the questions, and I never ask that question. Don't ask that question. Don't just, that's like to a real, if you're somebody's really enlightened, you're not gonna, you're not gonna have to ask the question. Like,
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah,
Gary Haskins:
know, you know, there is some level of awakening or enlightenment just by how they carry themselves. So that question is just really immature, to be honest with you. That's some, like elementary stuff. But, um, I don't think I've ever been asked that to be honest. And I think it's because, uh, like I, said, I'm usually the one asking questions.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah. I, I've had, I've had it on like I TikTok
Gary Haskins:
What do you say?
Rahul N Singh:
and I just said. Um, I always, uh, yeah, uh, um, I think I may have had it once or twice on YouTube, but definitely on TikTok. Uh, I turned around and said, even if I am enlightened, I'm never telling you'cause it's none of your business. And,
Gary Haskins:
It's a good way to put it.
Rahul N Singh:
I mean, it really isn't, like, I don't think anyone needs to know. I mean, I kind of, yeah. In my household, yeah. We, I joke around and, uh, you know, I, I'd be like, yeah, I'm the enlightened one. You know, it is like creating that whole like, facade of, uh, and mocking when people think they're enlightened. Uh, and I make jokes about that, but yeah, uh, I have learned that some of these jokes can kind of, people can misunderstand it, so I have to keep my weird sense of humor sometimes, you know, just, I just share that with my wife. But my honest feeling is always, even if I was enlightened, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Um, it, because what is saying it is enlightened is only name and form, and that's not even real. So
Gary Haskins:
exactly.
Rahul N Singh:
Also, I'm like, even if I did answer yes, what difference does that make? Like, is that person suddenly gonna come by and like, offer me, offer me a Rolls, Royce or something like, yeah,
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. What is that? I don't know.
Rahul N Singh:
Like
Gary Haskins:
Where does that question come from, I guess is a good quandary to go into? Like, why is this person asking me if I'm enlightened? Like, what do they wanna know. about that? I don't know. Like, why would you, because I've never been inclined to ask that question. I've never said to, to ask this person. If they're enlightened. I guess they're just not integrated enough on the path.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, it, it, it's come from, I, I would say it's when you know you're not enlightened, but also there's that added thing of being a keyboard warrior, so you
Gary Haskins:
I see. Mm.
Rahul N Singh:
that question just to kind of catch someone out.
Gary Haskins:
Yeah. Okay.
Rahul N Singh:
And I think, and that's, I mean, it's the most beautiful thing. Yet, the most the craziest thing too that can happen.
Gary Haskins:
you said, even if we were enlightened, it's none of their business.'cause once you do say Yeah, I'm enlightened, like it's nothing.'cause if you really were, I guess, how else would you answer that question? You just say, yeah. And you know you are. Yeah. But then from then on out, you've claimed that you are an enlightened being. So if you do something Yeah. But they're enlightened. They said they're enlightened. It's like you could be held against you. It's very immature to ask that. And it's not useful. It's not useful for anybody, you know,
Rahul N Singh:
It, it's like you said, you can tell it from their, their energy and their,
Gary Haskins:
their vibe.
Rahul N Singh:
teaching. Yeah. you can just tell from the moment they express something, You feel there's a higher connection of some sort. And, um, I think that's all that matters really. Um,
Gary Haskins:
yeah. Real recognize real too.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. But yeah. Uh, so just to wrap up our conversation, The one thing I definitely want to ask, and I think you've answered it throughout the podcast, but I think you can sum it up nicely. Uh, what advice would you give to someone that is searching for spiritual guidance on YouTube today?
Gary Haskins:
On YouTube.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
Don't believe everything you see on YouTube. Honestly, there's a lot of garbage, for lack of a better word. Hopefully not sounding too crude, but there is a lot of garbage. There's a lot of pseudo spirituality. You gotta sift through it to find the good stuff. I like to think I create the good stuff. You create the good stuff. I like to think so. But if you don't resonate, you don't resonate, that's okay. But point of story is you have to be able to find what you resonate with. I. You have to sift through it, you're gonna come across some garbage. Some stuff you truly don't resonate with, stuff that makes you go, huh? But don't, don't let that discourage you from finding true guidance, because there's real people out there and I didn't know how many real ones I like to call'em, were out there until I started doing the podcast. But there's a lot of real people that are really earnest on the path, that don't have a lot of views, and they don't have a lot of subscribers. You just gotta find them. Like you just, I don't know how to find'em. The algorithm throws'em my way. Search certain words. Look at podcasts, especially look at my podcast if you wanna find some real people.
Rahul N Singh:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Gary Haskins:
And just if you resonate with those, like a certain person or people, stay with them. Stay with that and stay with that certain energy, you know? Uh, real recognize real, like I said, like attracts like. So just go with that and, uh, yeah, that's it. I guess. Just find what you resonate with, not even just on YouTube, also in books. People in your life, all mediums of energy that you bring forth into your life. Find that subtle resonance, that subtle whisper of intuition
Rahul N Singh:
Hmm.
Gary Haskins:
like we said before, and that'll lead the way.
Rahul N Singh:
Beautiful.
Gary Haskins:
That's all.
Rahul N Singh:
Thank you. I thank you Gary. it's been wonderful having you here. This is my first of this, bearded Mystic Oneness conversations. And we are truly one here. I mean, you know, I'm. I, I've really learnt a lot from you today. Some things I think I'm gonna like, kind of really contemplate upon, because the, some of the things we've talked about, especially about poetry and kind of the sounds and language, has really been, has really, really kind of stood out for me today. So, uh, thank you for opening up, um, because I, you know, you go through that phase where you stop reading certain things and you think, uh, you kind of, you don't need to read that stuff anymore. But I feel like after, uh, speaking with you, I felt that actually maybe I want to revisit some of those poems that I read in the past and, and see how I read them today.
Gary Haskins:
It's a good idea. Always the student, that's what I like to say,
Rahul N Singh:
Yes, absolutely.
Gary Haskins:
you a recommendation. The Upanishads commentary or translation by Aurobindo. I was reading this actually before we came in.
Rahul N Singh:
Oh, nice,
Gary Haskins:
the best translation that I have read, not that I've read, too much, but of I, from what I have read, that is the best translation of the Upanishads. Um, yeah, Aurobindo is, he's up there. He's, he's a true sage, so I'd recommend that.
Rahul N Singh:
yeah. No, thank you. And that's, uh, and I'm gonna read that actually, and I'm gonna put that as my next book to read. Thank you very much Gary, for coming onto this show, coming on here and sharing your wisdom with us all. And those of you that are watching, um, you know, subscribe to the channel, but mainly I. Before you even subscribe to mine, subscribe to Gary's channel, which is in the show notes and video description below. Thank you everyone. Take care. Namaste.
Gary Haskins:
Namaste. Thank you.
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